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University ranking

Posted: 02 September 2010 10:34 AM

Hello. Regarding applications, I’m interested in opinions & experience of just HOW important it is to law firms WHICH Uni you attained your LLB from, compared with the class of degree you managed to achieve. For example, will firms be just as impressed by a 1st from a lower ranked Uni (88th - Times) as they would be by a 2:1 from a higher ranked Uni (one of the top 20 in the Times)?
Surely, aren’t they more concerned with what you managed to achieve as an individual, rather than the ranking of the Uni where you studied?
Many thanks in advance for your replies.

helzbelz15187 (1 Posts) - New User

Posted: 02 September 2010 02:29 PM

Hiya. I think it depends on your application as a whole. If the reason for you attending a “lower ranked” uni is the fact that your GCSE and ‘A’ Level results weren’t of sufficient attainment for you to attend a “higher-ranked” uni, then this will probably affect your application - your results at school are also evidence of “what you manage to achive as an individual”. Having said that, I achieved 10 A*s at GCSE and 5 As at ‘A’ Level, but was ill during my time at Durham University (higher-ranked) and only managed to obtain a 2:2. Not one single firm has invited me for interview for a training contract, so it would appear that your degree ranking is of paramount importance. I’d suggest that firms will probably favour a 1st from a higher-ranked uni than a 1st from another - it is just another process of elimination, given the many thousands of applications firms must contend with. I think if you have a 1st from a respectable uni, and 88th is certainly respectable enough, then you should not find yourself at too much of a disadvantage.

Beth (68 Posts) - Power User

Posted: 02 September 2010 03:38 PM

This topic has been debated elsewhere on this forum (see http://www.allaboutlaw.co.uk/index.php/forum/viewthread/20/).

In my (limited) experience, many firms *do* care about university. Look at what law fairs they attend. Some firms target students from a small number of top universities or universities local to them. Some attend a wider range of fairs. Looking at a firm’s campus profile is a good indicator of their priorities. If a firm is advertising itself to students at your university—e.g. through attending law fairs, giving brochures to the careers office or sponsoring the law society’s events—it’s a good sign that they are prepared to hire students who attended it.

I’d be surprised if a firm rated a 1st from a low ranked university (like the original poster’s example of 88th in the Times) higher than a 2.1 from a top 20 university. This is because they think (whether it’s true or not) that it’s easier to get a 1st from a low ranked university than to get a 2.1 from a top 20 uni. You can argue that this is unfair, but it’s the way many firms think.

Getting a 2.2 seems to be an automatic cutoff for a lot of firms, regardless of the university you went to.

JokerWig (3 Posts) - New User

Posted: 02 September 2010 10:26 PM

Thankyou SO much for your prompt replies - as a new user I am MOST impressed! I was unsure whether anyone would even respond!

To clarify, I am a mature student (30) with no legal experience. I have a young family. I attended my local comprehensive & left aged 16 with 9 GCSE’s (2 B’s, 7 C’s) - actually a VERY good result for that school! I started my A-levels but decided to enter into employment instead, leaving after a few months. My background is mainly sales, office & retail, including management in those areas.

I was recently made redundant, repossessed & finally had to file for bankruptcy - I was discharged early this year. These were very-difficult times for my family & I to say the least. I don’t mind admitting that, quite understandably, I’d hit rock-bottom.

As a family, we came through these difficulties together & I am determined to NEVER experience the like again. I decided it was time to return to education & seek out qualifications (something that CANNOT be taken away from me) towards a professional career that will benefit all of us in the future.

I had always wanted to become a lawyer since an early age, Law was one of the A-levels I started. Upon making enquiries, I found that I couldn’t achieve a place to read Law at Uni without A-levels, so last year I began an Access to Higher Education course at a local college.

When I did my UCAS application, the main factors I had to consider were my family, costs & locality, so I chose my most local Uni. I only applied to one & didn’t even consider any others - I thought an LLB was an LLB the same over. I attended an open day there & have confidence in the institution (despite them being ranked 88th by The Times).
I was delighted to receive a conditional offer.

I passed the Access Course with ALL of my credits at Distinction grade. I start my LLB in 2 weeks. I will be aiming for a 1st, no matter WHAT it takes. It has only been during the holidays that I have read SO much regarding career guidance, how competitive it is getting a job etc, that I have started to become concerned about things - am I wasting my time & money (student debt).

I have never dreamed of working for one of the “Magic Circle” top city firms, I know I wouldn’t stand a chance, but I would like to know that I can hope of securing a job with a local highstreet firm or the CPS. I have always been interested in criminal law & would ideally like to specialise in that area. It is the job & the work involved which would motivate me, not the lucrative earnings.

Obviously, I know that I need to start seeking out some work experience in the legal field; I intend to volunteer for my local CAB & would gladly accept voluntary positions within local courts/solicitors firms, but I wanted to wait until I have started my LLB so that people will take me seriously.

I am aware that my bankruptcy may raise concerns also, but I have spoken to the SRA & the Bar Council about this matter & they have confirmed that I will not be discriminated against because of this. I have been discharged now, there were mitigating circumstances surrounding it & it was the only viable option following advice on my position. I am hopeful that achieving a 1st class law degree will go some way to demonstrating that I am still capable of achieving success in my life, regardless of previous failures.

I just hope that because my LLB won’t be from a top uni, I’m not discriminated against because of that! That would be very-disheartening after all we’ve been through.

Beth (68 Posts) - Power User

Posted: 03 September 2010 09:03 AM

Thanks for providing information about your background. It does make a difference to the answer to your question.

If you’re looking to work for a local firm, they will be a lot more well-disposed to a local university than a big national/regional firm. They’re also likely to have fewer applicants so can carry out a more personalised recruitment procedure where your past achievements and triumph over adversity are likely to count heavily in your favour.

One word about criminal practice: most criminal matters involve publicly funded lawyers on both sides. With the cuts to public funding proposed by the new government, the meagre amounts available for both prosecutors and defence solicitors/barristers are likely to be hit. CPS hasn’t recruited *any* graduates/trainees this year and there’s no word about when they plan to start recruiting again.

If you’re really after financial stability, you might want to look at something likely to be a bit more resilient: property/conveyancing? I know the property market has been slow, but people are still buying and selling, re-mortgaging, finding new tenants/flats to rent, etc. Small insolvency work (individuals rather than companies) is also a recession proof speciality and your personal experience means you will have a lot of empathy with what your clients are going through.

Most of the law careers websites I have found seem to assume you are interested in joining a large firm and working your way up the ranks. It’s definitely not the only way to go, but it’s much harder to find information about in-house training contracts (speak to your local council and see if they ever take on legal trainees—bonus is local government pensions and stability, for whatever those are worth in the current economic climate), small high street firms or other options.

The other thing I might look into if I were you is the ILEX route. I’m sure there’s something about it elsewhere on this site, but I don’t have time to track down the reference at the moment.

Good luck with the LLB! Determination counts for a lot in the world of law and you seem to have it in spades.

JokerWig (3 Posts) - New User

Posted: 03 September 2010 09:51 AM

Thankyou for your prompt reply & sound advice regarding my future career options. I also appreciate your kind comments.

I was hesitant to reveal the details of my background; there is still alot of stigma surrounding bankruptcy and I have been affected by this. But life MUST go on & I have had to accept that owing to my financial situation & personal circumstances, there was simply no other viable alternative. I only hope future institutions will demonstrate consideration & understanding of this and not dismiss me as “damaged goods”. Only time will tell.

As mentioned, I did take advice on matters & was advised accordingly. The fact is, all that is BEHIND me now & my future is now looking ALOT brighter - take it from me, when you have hit rock bottom HARD as I have, the ONLY way is up.
And you are right, I do view things VERY differently now & have ALOT of empathy for others who have experienced/will experience the difficulties I have endured. I hope that this will make me a better lawyer one day, in serving to help people when they need it most.

My particular LLB course allows students studying particular option modules to also receive a Diploma from the National Association of Paralegals. I will be taking these. This way, I will graduate with two awards; LLB (Hons) & Diploma in Paralegal Practice. This additional qualification will give me the skills I need to make me more attractive in practice as a paralegal, if I were to choose not to proceed with the LPC/BPTC. On the other hand, it will give me a head start in the skills I will need and develop on those courses.

My Uni also boasts of enjoying a very good relationship with local firms of solicitors & barristers’ chambers (with a no of student prizes being sponsored by these firms) & also benefits from close links with local criminal justice agencies, inc the CPS, with many local organisations and employers acting as mentors to students.
I intend to take FULL advantage of these connections wherever/whenever I can alongside my studies, in an effort to establish relationships for my future.

Once again, thankyou for your time & effort in replying to me. Your advice regarding my success at finding work with local firms is very-encouraging, I only hope that they see things (& me) as you have.

Take care & all the very-best to you.

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